Welcome to Mia’s Queue, a newsletter spotlighting the secret agents of taste among us. In each edition, I chat with an undercover tastemaker infusing creativity and wonder into their (and our!) everyday life. Learn what lights them up, where they find inspiration, and what they think we should all be enjoying right now. Meet Agent 021: Keith Jopling, music industry exec and founder of The Song Sommelier.
Meet Keith Jopling, the Song Sommelier. He’s long worked on the business side of the music industry at places like Spotify and Sony Music. But it’s his love for the creative aspect, for its art and artists, that led him to start a music discovery platform that includes playlists, a podcast, and lovely artwork.
Like an oenophile, Keith is a connoisseur of aural flavors, stories, and histories. His podcast, The Art of Longevity, talks to artists with at least four albums out about what they’ve learned on rollercoaster journeys to success. Bands like Death Cab for Cutie, Suede, Metric, OMD, and Spoon have opened up to him, revealing a ton about creativity and resilience in the process.
“Music is like fine wine,” Keith declares. “It’s almost always better when discovered through personal recommendation or via a fascinating story well told.”
I couldn’t agree more! That’s why I was excited to dig in with my new Instagram friend from Twickenham, England.
What’s your goal with Song Sommelier?
I wanted to bring human curation back to playlists. It was an anti-algorithm thing.
Then I thought, “Let's do great artwork.” So I found Mick Clarke.
I curated the playlists or got others to do it. Occasionally we did get some pretty big celebs: the writer Ian Rankin did a playlist on Tom Waits, for example.
It got so far and I thought I needed a fourth media pillar: a podcast. I pitched to the Spotify podcast team that I wanted to hear interviews with artists who are honest about the failures, the dark times, and how they came back up. They were half-interested. “Okay, cool, great, Keith, but go back to the spreadsheet” so I [decided to do it myself]. The podcast has done really well!
When does someone earn that longevity crown in your eyes?
A decade, at least, from the first release is one criterion. You're clearly trying to establish a career.
The other criterion is at least four albums. (These are pretty loose by the way.) The fourth album is an interesting watershed because it usually means, if you had a big success with album one, you get a good tailwind for album two. Then you get to make album three, and sometimes that’s when things start to go wrong. And so by the time you get to your fourth, you've been through one of those cycles, the rollercoasters dip somewhere. You’ve probably changed labels or you've gone independent.
What have you learned about creativity from doing the podcast?
A huge amount. I wrote a blog about it, “21 themes for creative and commercial longevity in the music business.” There were three categories:
1. Creating and shaping the manifesto.
2. Mastering the craft, putting in the graft.
3. Managing expectations and attachments (i.e. the meaning of success).
All three are important. You must commit and carry on. Sometimes they've been dropped by a label, or they've lost a band member or maybe a founding member. They've had to really regroup and think: do we carry on or not? You have to keep doing your best work, whatever represents the best you can do creatively at that time.
Don't get attached to the industry markers of success, which are rammed down our throats all the time. Chart positions. Streaming counts. Sales. When I ask the question “How do you define success, or where do you still get the energy from your career now?” it is connecting with fans and getting recognition from their peers, not necessarily industry awards. Plus, ticket sales — getting to a point where they can play shows and make a living that way.
It’s also things like having a good inner circle of people around you and enough support and maybe another project. You can step off to the side and do a musical for two years, or write a book, or do art, and then come back to it later. Taking breaks and coming up for air.
Who are some of your favorite artists?
Ultimately, Radiohead, I suppose. If they ever if they ever come on [to my podcast], that would be the pinnacle. I could give up at that point.
Spoon are one of my favorite bands.
Wilco — I'd be delighted if Jeff comes on The Song Sommelier.
Alice in Chains. They're one of my favorite bands.
I love that your tagline is “the antidote to the algorithm.” What cultural force are you trying to combat with The Song Sommelier?
Combating industrialized tech. [Saving] art, really. On the one hand, I don't have a problem with [the tech/algorithm], because it's what satisfies the majority of people. Ultimately, it's about convenience. So from a marketing point of view, and even from a consumption point of view, it's fine, but I don't like what it does to the creators — it drops you into a bunch of code.
For example, on Spotify, rather than recommending artists that sound like an artist, they started recommending artists from the same town. You’re constantly being put into a lane because of the tags associated with you — that's just not how artists think or want to work.
The best stuff we discover is often by accident.
Sometimes it's serendipity. Somebody takes you to a show, and you connect emotionally just through it. I prefer that. Maybe you can divide the whole world into two: those who don't mind being programmed to, and those who are more open to a deeper form of discovery.
Well, speaking of discovery, what are some of your rituals and practices around discovering new music and new things?
I read the reviews still. And it's not to know if it's good or bad. I just like reading how people are describing new stuff. So that's been a habit of mine for 30 years. I love the Friday arts pages in the paper. So I go old school and get you know the physical copy [of The Guardian], just on a Friday.
I will definitely pay attention to Spotify. That's how I got back into Half Moon Run.
There are people I'll go to, other curators, whose tastes I admire. Some of them are really, really tiny. There's a website I like called Daily Records. And it's really nice. The curator is a pathologist from somewhere in the Midwest. This is just his hobby. I love this taste in albums. Every time, his description just hits the spot, so there’s that cultural connection that I love.
Some record stores are just awesome. I discovered recently Limited Addition Records in Manchester. All the recommendations are just brilliant.
What's your workflow around harnessing your inspiration into productivity?
I know people who keep spreadsheets and have their own album reviews and stuff. It's fascinating how people do it. But for me, it's just all flying around inside my cotton brain.
Let’s try to capture bits of that ‘cotton brain’ here! What are some things that you recommend people read, watch, listen, eat, do, etc?
📺 Boiling Point on BBC
You know The Bear? There's a British “version,” strangely produced at the same time. I don't think they copied the idea, but it's so similar. It's called Boiling Point. A lot of it's recorded in one shot in the kitchen. I recommend the film and the series.
🎶 Half Moon Run’s “Salt”
There are about 100 favorite artists I could say, but I know it's going to come up on my Spotify most listened to of the year just because it's dominated my my ears. I just love this album.
🎙 Rumble Strip
It's like This American Life, but it's centered around a bunch of towns in Vermont. It's human stories and it's just incredible.
🏴 St. Ives in Cornwall
Anyone who comes to the UK should go to St. Ives in Cornwall because the town has no less than 4 amazing beaches and the light is stunning (the food and drink is pretty good too). I even have a playlist for it.
• The best place to follow Keith is on Spotify and Instagram.
Mia’s Queue is a free newsletter featuring an ordinary person with extraordinary taste. Subscribe to get posts like this in your inbox every other Thursday (with infrequent breaks).
More Mia’s Queue: Cecily • Raymond • Marisa • Andy • Sebene • Gil • Alison • Alexis • Storey • Meg • Sadia • Kel • Tracy • Theresa • Vasha • Eva • Sarah • James • Adi • Letitia